joe, i know joe very well but i tell you, the reason they savage ryan, he's dealing with the driver in the engine compartment that can wipe out america and that's health care. you -- that's the engine. it's on automatic pilot. and it will suck up every discretionary part of the budget unless you put the brakes on and that's why they -- >> senator, i want to interrupt you on that. it sound to me that you are not displeased from what you're hearing from your candidates right now. we all agreed at the beginning it was unbelievable they didn't bring up the deficit. paul ryan opposes your plan. >> i know it. >> he dissented. >> and so did the president. everybody opposed -- we pissed everyone in america. nobody's doing anything for us. >> at the risk of pissing you off, what would you say to them? >> tell them we have a leaderless government and he can lead. this gentleman can't govern. he's doing politics day and night. >> erskine bowles, same question to you. if had a chance to advise obama and biden on what you want to hear about the deficit and the fiscal cliff, what would you tell them